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Old 02-18-09, 02:26 PM
PetriFB PetriFB is offline
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Default I believe RCC has nonbiblical and deceptive doctrines

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/Ca...h%20and%20pope

Roman Catholic Church and its doctrine is non biblical and deception. Behind the link is writing which handles RCC doctrine very extensively and shows by the word of God that doctrines of RCC are non biblical and deceptions.

Last edited by Charles; 02-18-09 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 02-18-09, 09:38 PM
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I'd be interested to hear a priest argue the points in that article. My guess is that he would knock them down one by one but then I am not Catholic so who knows.
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Old 02-20-09, 04:55 AM
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Pope Eugene IV said “Buddhism is the religion of damnation ". Pope John Paul II, however, said: "Buddhism is the religion of salvation.” The Catholic Church teaches that: "The Pope is infallible, when he as the highest shepherd and teacher of the church gives a decision which concerns the whole church". One or the other Pope has made a mistake and the doctrine of Catholic Church on the infallibility of the Pope is broken. Actually, the Pope is not infallibility, because no man is perfect, but every man is imperfect before God.


http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/popeandbuddhist.jpg


In the picture Pope John Paul II in year 1984 met the representatives of the Buddhist religion. The Pope's statement, that Buddhism is the religion of salvation is false, because Buddhism is serving idols. The Pope has also ecumenical relationships with Buddhism. The Vatican teaches today that all religions are equal, but God has set only one church in which all can be saved which is the Roman Catholic Church. The Vatican's statements are very conflicting, because sometimes it gives statements like Buddhism is the religion of salvation, but says at the same time that salvation is only in the Catholic Church. This is the Pope's ecumenical target to accept other religions and churches, but to raise the Catholic Church above all other churches and religions.

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/popeandshivamark.jpg

In the picture a Shiva priestess put the pagan idol mark in the forehead of the Pope (sign of the tilak). In this way this Pope received the anointment of the Shiva religion. The Shiva religion is one branch of the Hindu religion. Hinduism and Shiva religion serve idols. Pope John II was openly idol worshipper and deceiver.



Ecumenicalism is so deceitful, which is a way of Satan to mislead and deceive believers and unbelievers so that people would believe that ecumenicalism is the work of God, where He connects all people to be one. The disciple of Jesus Christ does not have any part of this ecumenical work with the Pope and the Catholic Church. Disciples of Jesus Christ have to practise oneness with those who has born in the Spirit of God and not with the idol worshippers.

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/po...esthequran.jpg

Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran in the year 1999. This kiss of the Pope was an indication of his huge respect towards the Koran, and an indication of his huge respect towards the religion of Islam. The Pope practised ecumenism with the representatives of Islam. The Pope spoke openly that the Catholic Church respects the religion of Islam.



The Bible says that we must love our neighbour, but we cannot accept the service of idols, which the religion of Islam represents. The Pope accepted the faith of Muslims and has prayed together with the representatives of Islam. The Religion of Islam represents the serving of idols and the disciples of Jesus Christ cannot practise unity of faith with the representatives of satanic religions. The purpose of ecumenism is to forge unity with the religion of Islam.



Roman Catholic Church is involved with ecumenicalism and RCC gives a next kind of statements about in the name of ecumenicalism:

There is one God and this truth Christians have inherited from the children of Israel and they share this with muslims and it is faith in one God, Lord of heaven and earth. The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator and they are also the Muslims and they hold faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merficul God.



Nostra Aetate
3. The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, theCreator of heaven and earth,[1] who has also spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the bidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they worship Jesus as a prophet, his virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting.
Over the centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them together preserve and promote peace, liberty, social justice and moral values.





DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH - LUMEN GENTIUM
Promulgated By His Holiness, Pope Paul VI on November 21, 1964
16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.[18] There is, first, that people to which the covenants and promises were made, and from which Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom. 9:4-5): in view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Rom. 11:29-29). But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day. Nor is God remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25-28), and since the Saviour wills all men to be saved (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience--those too many achieve eternal salvation.[19] Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is considered by the Church to be a preparation for the Gospel[20] and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.


RCC says that plan of salvation also includes the Muslims. Islam religion is pagan religion, which worship idol and wrong god. Islam has nothing to do with believing of the Bible (word of God), but Muslims are equal misled as Catholics are, and for this reason they are working together in the work of ecumenicalism in the last days of mankind:


Re 17:1 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.



The Bible teaches in the book of revelation that in the last days on the earth affects spirit of Babylon, in which they worship mother (RCC virgin Mary and religions goddesses things) religions. Mother of harlots is Babylon Queen of the heaven cult (RCC) and harlots are other religions, which are together by ecumenicalism deceiving inhabitants of the earth to worship devilish doctrines. All churches who practice ecumenical connection with RCC are participants of evil work and evil spirits. God shall judge everybody who is co-operating with Roman Catholic Church by ecumenical work or some other ways are supporting evil lies of RCC. RCC and ecumenical work are deceiving many churches and believers into the bosom of antichrist, so withdraw for those churches, who are working or supporting somehow RCC.



Many Christians have been deceived to believe that love your sisters and brothers mean that we have to keep those as our sisters and brothers, who are Catholics who believe all false doctrines of Roman Catholic Church. If some Catholics say that they believe in Jesus Christ, but at the same they believe also to false and deceiving doctrines of Roman Catholic Church, so the Bible says that we cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. We must believe to the Bible, not devilish doctrines of RCC. Roman Catholic Church has many ways into salvation, but the Bible teaches only one salvation by the blood and atonement of Jesus Christ. So my sisters and brothers are only those, who believe the Bible and don't mix the word of God to devilish doctrines. We must have unity and fellowship only with those who serve the Lord by the love and truth and don't mix the truth with devilish doctrines of RCC or other religions devilish doctrines. We must love Catholics as our neighbours, but we must also tell them the truth about RCC's deceptions.



1Co 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.



Ecumenicalism is work of antichrist as intention to deceive all mankind to worship idols. Behind ecumenicalism is illuminati, which is connected to RCC, because Roman Catholic Church, Masons, Jesuits, Club of Rome, New Age movements and international bankers they all are the same bunch, and they have the same goal to make new world order, where the mankind would serve evil spirits. We must understand that leaders of RCC are satan worshippers and proves for this is theirs evil doctrines and evil goals. Because all of those before mentioned groups are committed themselves to satan and evil spirits, and they hate the truth and Jesus Christ, so they want to establish new world order on the earth, which is satan' "kingdom" and they succeeded in this attempt for a little while, until Jesus Christ comes and destroys their kingdom, and He establishes His kingdom on the earth for thousand years, and after that this world will be destroyed and God makes New Heavens and New Earth and New Jerusalem, where live eternally all those, who have believed in God.



1 Tim 4:1-3: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.





Apostle Paul wrote that during the end many believers will give up the faith and start to follow the teachings of the evil spirits. There is a hint in this verse to us about this teaching of the evil spirits. The hint is that they forbid marrying. The Catholic Church forbids its priests from marrying. This means that during the end many believers will give up their living faith and believe the false gospel of the Catholic Church. By way of ecumenicalism, this verse comes true and is already coming true and partly has come true.



Every disciple of Jesus who loves God and His word is under an obligation to tell the truth for Roman Catholics. Love Roman Catholics and tell them the truth, that Roman catholic doctrine doesn't base on to the doctrine of the Bible, but is mixture and mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of the Harlots and of the Abominations of the Earth. We have to understand, what word anti-christ means, before we can understand this subject. All religions are co-operating in ecumenical work in the last days and are against the real truth and Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, we must understand, that Greek word antikhristos has a two meaning against and instead of (vicar). Roman Catholic church has those two characters, it is against gospel of Jesus, and it pretends to be vicarious Gospel of Jesus. Anti-Christ has two faces it's with same time against gospel of Jesus and try to pretend that he is vicarious gospel of Jesus. There can be also believers inside of RCC, but they can’t believe official doctrine of RCC, because it is another gospel and not the gospel of Christ. If you are Jesus' disciple and inside of Roman Catholic Church: Come out of her, God's people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues. Jesus' disciples can't be participants for the whore of Babylon (RCC), so come out of her and let God's guide you to true church of God.

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/Ca...20pope.html#41
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Old 02-20-09, 03:24 PM
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I am not expert on islam by any means and was not aware they worshipped idols. Can you explain what idols and in what way? I do know that one story in the koran praises Abraham for rejecting idols. This link tells a bit of it http://www.aaronshep.com/stories/035.html Please note that the story this site tells about is not Biblical truth just a story about someone of whom the Bible also speaks but tells something the Bible does not say.
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1Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. ... Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. Matthew 25:40 & 45

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Old 02-20-09, 04:15 PM
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for some reson there are two post here.
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Old 02-20-09, 04:20 PM
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Ann I may be wrong but I believe at fist he is talking about Hinduism than switches to Islam. I only had time to skim the post but I think all the idol worship stuff had to do with Hinduism. My question for Petri is what does he think of Rick Warren who seems to be just as ecumenical.
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Old 02-20-09, 06:07 PM
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What I was asking about was the sentence in his post
Quote:
The Bible says that we must love our neighbour, but we cannot accept the service of idols, which the religion of Islam represents.
I don't know enough about islam to know a place where it advocates idol worship but I do know Petri studies well and may be able to clarify that for me.
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1Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. ... Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. Matthew 25:40 & 45

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Old 02-20-09, 09:04 PM
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oops told you I might be wrong
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Old 02-21-09, 01:54 AM
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1Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. ... Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. Matthew 25:40 & 45

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Old 02-21-09, 02:57 AM
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I wonder if by idol he means a false god?
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Old 02-21-09, 02:59 AM
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maybe, hopefully he'll swing back by here soon
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1Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. ... Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. Matthew 25:40 & 45

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Old 02-22-09, 03:12 PM
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This misunderstands the doctrine of the RCC. For starters, everything the Pope speaks is not "ex cathredra infallible". While one response above is correct in that a good Priest or Catholic theologian would knock down all these points one by one, you don't have to go that far when wikipedia can do it. For example:

"In practice, popes seldom use their power of infallibility, but rely on the notion that the Church allows the office of the pope to be the ruling agent in deciding what will be accepted as formal beliefs in the church."[2] Since the solemn declaration of Papal Infallibility by Vatican I on July 18, 1870, this power has been used only once ex cathedra: in 1950 when Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as being an article of faith for Roman Catholics. Prior to the solemn definition of 1870, Pope Pius IX, with the support of the overwhelming majority of Roman Catholic Bishops, had proclaimed Immaculate Conception an ex cathedra dogma in December 1854."

or this:

"An infallible teaching by a pope or ecumenical council can contradict previous Church teachings, as long as they were not themselves taught infallibly. In this case, the previous fallible teachings are immediately made void. Of course, an infallible teaching cannot contradict a previous infallible teaching, including the infallible teachings of the Holy Bible or Holy Tradition. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

I won't go through all the points one by one. THat is easy enough for any careful truth seeker with an internet connection. I am also not expressing any agreement or disagreement with Papal infallibly, only that Anti-Catholic sentiment often ends up knocking down men of straw.

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Old 02-22-09, 06:16 PM
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Regardless of what a Catholic theologian could or couldn't knock down you can't get away from infused righteousnes, this is basically the idea that Christ death will get you part of the way but you must work to get the rest of the way. Or things like indulgences which are making a come back.

This is not to say that just because your catholic than your not saved, God can save anyone regardless of bad teaching. Thankfully this is ture with what seems to be an abundance of bad teaching these days.
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Old 02-22-09, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Disney View Post
Regardless of what a Catholic theologian could or couldn't knock down you can't get away from infused righteousnes, this is basically the idea that Christ death will get you part of the way but you must work to get the rest of the way. Or things like indulgences which are making a come back.

This is not to say that just because your catholic than your not saved, God can save anyone regardless of bad teaching. Thankfully this is ture with what seems to be an abundance of bad teaching these days.
Re: Infused righteousness.

Hello Don. Isn't it true that Christ's death will get you know where, unless you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and repent of your trangressions (technically an action or work on your part).

Unlike Martin Luther, the sparker of the protestant reformation, I actually hold in high regard, the Epistle of James. It has a lot to say about works. Faith without works is dead and we also know works without faith is useless. But the definition of "faith" and works" requires a lot of elaboration--possibly even a systematic theology. Works are a necessary component. Without them there is no salvation according to the Bible. I personally could care less whether righteousness is imputed, imparted or infused, I am just thankful that it is.

I am also sure that we can proof-text hunt scripture and provide justification for all three if we tried hard enough. For example, 1 John 3:7 "Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous." I don't find such endeavors useful, however.

It also makes perfect sense to me that the full purification and sanctification processes of human beings takes some time. Sin doesn't disappear after being "born again". Though I suppose according to 1John 3:6 no one is saved or has ever been--unless you know Christians who stopped sinning completely after salvation.

And the indulgence scandals of the Church were very bad. Any large organization with a lot of money and power is prone to scandal, corruption and greed. Whether or not indulgences are innately bad is another matter. From the New Advent Catholic encyclopedia online:

What Indulgences are not

To facilitate explanation, it may be well to state what an indulgence is not. It is not a permission to commit sin, nor a pardon of future sin; neither could be granted by any power. It is not the forgiveness of the guilt of sin; it supposes that the sin has already been forgiven. It is not an exemption from any law or duty, and much less from the obligation consequent on certain kinds of sin, e.g., restitution; on the contrary, it means a more complete payment of the debt which the sinner owes to God. It does not confer immunity from temptation or remove the possibility of subsequent lapses into sin. Least of all is an indulgence the purchase of a pardon which secures the buyer's salvation or releases the soul of another from Purgatory. The absurdity of such notions must be obvious to any one who forms a correct idea of what the Catholic Church really teaches on this subject. [emphasis mine]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

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Old 02-23-09, 01:21 AM
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Well Vinnie,

I think you have a misunderstanding of what James is and is not saying so let us take a look:
Quote:
James 2 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. ESV
It is easy to see that what James is teaching is that our works reflect our faith. And moreover, Paul says in Eph 2,
Quote:
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
This passage clearly says that we are saved by faith, and if you believe as I do Salvation begins and ends with God not only does He grant us repentance but also the faith to believe in Him. Because the nature of man is so dirty and bend following his sin nature that he would never seek after God.

Part of me hates doing this but I am not always good with words and it would take me weeks to explain it like John Piper does so here is what he says
Quote:
Loveless faith is absolutely useless; and anybody that comes along and says "We are justified by faith alone, and so you don't have to be a loving person to go to heaven" is not telling the truth.

Let's see how James corrects this distortion of Paul's teaching. Here's where you have to watch out for words - what does James mean by the words he uses? Even when his words may seem to be in conflict with Paul, is the meaning in conflict?

James' concern is with a kind of counterfeit faith that does not produce love. This faith cannot justify anybody. Verse 14: "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" You see his concern. "Can that faith save him?" Such faith is not going to save. What kind of works is James interested in? The same kind Paul is - the works of love. Verses 15-16: "If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,' and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?" So James' concern is that people have real saving faith, not counterfeit faith. And the difference is that the real faith produces loving behavior.

He has three ways of describing this counterfeit faith. First in verse 17, he says it is dead: "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." It is dead faith. If faith does not "work through love" as Paul said, it is dead. Second, in verse 19 he says, "You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." There is a faith that even devils have, namely, belief in right doctrine. The faith that justifies and works through love is not simply belief in right doctrines like, "God is one." Devils can be orthodox at the intellectual level. They believe. But it doesn't save them. So there is dead faith and devil faith. Third, he says in verse 20, "But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?" So there is useless, idle, ineffective, vain, empty faith.

So there are three ways in this passage that James talks about faith to show that the faith he says cannot justify is a faith that Paul would totally agree cannot justify - dead faith, devil faith, and useless faith -faith that has no vital life that works through love.
This entire sermon can be found here and is will worth the time to read or you can download the audio of it. After this he goes on to explain the example of Abraham.

All man made religions IE Mormonism, JW's, Islam, Buddhism have this in common that they most work or do preform some kind off work in order to achieve their end goal. True Christianity teaches that man can't do anything to earn there salvation, however God himself completed it on the Cross, did not Christ say it is finished. I believe he meant it.

Hopefully I made sense and did not come across as condescending.

Sola Fide for Soli Deo Gloria
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Last edited by Don Disney; 02-23-09 at 01:26 AM.
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